The Commander Series Forum

Lets see if I can describe this without a photo...

I had two HQs operating a Soviet force, rigid structure. Cmd A (8) had some tanks, Cmd B (8) had 6 BMPs.

I understand that rigid formations means that I cannot use Cmd A to give orders to the BMPs.

I split the BMPs, 3 debussing by the woods (where the HQ sat), the other 3 heading forward to a distance of 35cm away from the HQ. No problem so far.

When I activate Cmd B next time, must he go with every unit ordinarily under his command or can he elect which of the units he is commanding?

A. If he has to command everything he is in command of, then he is at a 7 because the BMPs are over 20cm away. But;

B. Can I say I am only commanding he three closer BMPs and roll for an 8?

C. If B is possible, having NOT commanded the more distant BMPs, can I then choose to command them on the next roll (at an extra -1 for being the next order)?

Or did I read something about it going back up to 8 because it's the first order for that unit??

My understanding is, to gain the +1 he would have to command everything and they would all have to do the same thing. I think with rigid doctrine there is no problem ordering a smaller group, but no +1 even if all the subgroup do the same thing. As long as you don't fail an order, you could stop ordering one subgroup and order another group, starting again at original cv, again no +1.

A. Yes, but if they all did the same thing he'd get +1 cv, so back to cv 8.

B. Yes, that's my understanding

C. Yes, but you would go back to starting cv of 8, -1 for distance.

You can't then go back to the first group of nearer BMPs though, once command moves on you can't go back in the turn.

Cheers, Andy

So in this example, I could order subgroup 1 (roll of 8) to move, then order it to move again (7), then order the infantry to get out (6)

I could then switch to order subgroup 2 (back to an 8, -1 because of the distance), thrn order them again (7-1)

However if the third move with subgroup 1 (6) had failed that command would stop, and after moving subgroup 2 I couldn't go back to move subgroup 1 again.

The only difference between rigid and flexible is that I couldn't let another command, perhaps closer uk subgroup 2, take control.

While I'm there.... how many times can a unit fire in a turn?

Take a group of 6 Chieftains, under the command of an HQ (9)

Are they limited to firing once, or could he order all 6 to fire until he fails a command roll??

(Potentially 6 tanks receiving orders 4-5 times = 30 shots at 6 dice per shot = 180 dice. Assuming 50% hit (4+ in the open) that's 90 hits in a turn).

That's how we play it. Rigid generally have lower cv and get +1 if everyone does the same thing. They also have a lower initiative distance and less flexibility in term of calling in off table assets. Flexible can use the CO/HQ to call in any off board artillery on anything within sight of any of his units. In rigid, only dedicated artillery can be called in by a commander, everything else comes via an FAO.

A unit can fire as often as they get successful commands. Exceptions are off board artillery and ATGM, which can only fire once per player turn. So, your squadron and a half of Chieftains could fire 5 times (quite common with NATO cv 9), makes them quite nasty. FV438s can only fire once per turn, either under orders or as opportunity fire. We've started playing recently so dedicated ATGM can fire once in opportunity fire and once under orders - makes them a little more reasonable for the points cost. For Warpact players, it pays to suppress those Chieftains if at all possible.

Cheers, Andy

I think that this covers it...

So in this example, I could order subgroup 1 (roll of 8) to move, then order it to move again (7), then order the infantry to get out (6)
- No, this is the first order to the infantry, so the HQ reverts to its base value of 8, then order the inf to move off on a 7 etc… BUT you can’t order the BMPs again that turn.

I could then switch to order subgroup 2 (back to an 8, -1 because of the distance), thrn order them again (7-1)
- Yes.

However if the third move with subgroup 1 (6) had failed that command would stop, and after moving subgroup 2 I couldn't go back to move subgroup 1 again.
- Correct, once you fail with a commander it’s all over for him that turn.

While I'm there.... how many times can a unit fire in a turn?
- In the command phase as many times as it receives an order to fire

(Potentially 6 tanks receiving orders 4-5 times = 30 shots at 6 dice per shot = 180 dice. Assuming 50% hit (4+ in the open) that's 90 hits in a turn).
- Exactly!

Ah makes sense.

One more.

Once a unit has been activated it can't be commanded by something else, but if (for example) my HQ had screwed up and failed its command roll before getting to the second group of BMPs could the CO still attempt to command them?

Does it make a difference if the HQ failed trying to command the BMPs, or would that count as activating them?

Yes. Best keeping that to last as once the CO fails, that's the end of the turn.

No. A complete HQ order fail doesn't count as an activation.

Dr Dave, not sure I know any other player who would allow freshly dismounted infantry to start as a completely fresh orders group back to full cv for the HQ. If that is the case, my Polish marines would be a hell of a lot more effective. They may be sitting in their tin cans, but surely they are part of the orders group alongside the BMP IFVs?

Cheers, Andy

How does Recce work?

Are they under a command, or do they somehow work independently?

See the answer in BKC section Geoff.

But there are a few varients :-

1) Some groups do the move action in the command phase

2) Some groups have the +1 boost for the first command roll only, some for all rolls in the turn.

3) Some groups allow the boost to any command or observer element, most only for the closets one.

IanS

I put it here too because in BKC recce was referred to in Formations, but that paragraph is (intentionally?) omitted from CWC so I wondered if it had been covered or abstracted another way.

I noticed that you can take recce units as ordinary combat units (-20 points). Does that mean a BRDM-2 is just a BRDM-2 and cannot use the recce stuff? Does it mean a recce BRDM-2 cannot use the fire statistics, or perhaps only in defence?

A BRDM-2 is a BRDM-2. The 20 point reduction just removes the recce ability. All other stats remain the same, so recce and "normal" BRDM-2s have the same shooting ability. It's up to you if you want to waste your recce BRDM-2 getting into a shooting war.

Cheers, Andy.

My last recce BRDM-2 met a 120mm HEAT round. I think it's still in orbit...

Don't forget that recce can only fire as an initiative action. So the recce power does impact on your shooting ability.

Like so many recce assets, a BRDM-2 is too light to be used for anything besides recce in a proper battle.