The Commander Series Forum

Hi guys

Just running this past you

Points worked out for dedicated ATGW Units as follows:
(Book cost - 20) / 2 + 10
[Easy way:- Book cost / 2 + 10]
FRU to nearest 5 points
eg. Support Unit (ATGW, Sagger) 4/150 70 points
(120 / 2 = 60 + 10 = 70)

For vehicle ATGW Unit:
Book cost - Book ATGW cost + new ATGW cost
eg. ATGW Unit (AT-3 Sagger, BRDM) 4/150 115 points
(165 - 120 = 45 + 70 = 115)

Points worked out for IFV and Tank Units as follows:
Half the difference between vehicle with and without ATGW
eg. IFV Unit (BMP-1[Sagger]) 70 points
(85 - 55 = 30 / 2 = 15 + 55 = 70)
eg. Tank Unit (T.80, Improved, ATGW) 200 points
(220 - 180 = 40 / 2 = 20 + 180 = 200)

For Attack Helicopters, would do the same as Dedicated ATGW vehicles?

Points for IATWs, I would half (FRU)

Paul

Sorry Paul - what are you suggesting here?
(me being dim n'all)

Hi

Just changes in the points values, as people complain that they are way to high.

No actual rule changes, though I do agree with letting ATGWs fire across water.

This should make playing ATGWs in point-based games better.

Also, there is a +1/-1 per 1000 points in the Breakpoint values for Rigid/Flexible armies.

Hope this kinda clears up my intension.

Paul

Gottcha

We are currently play-testing house-rules that allow dedicated specialist ATGW units to fire on command through-out the game turn, so each move, as long as their Command roll is passed.

This doesn't apply to other units - so Infantry AT (LAW, Carl Gustav, RPGs etc) or RCLRs only fire once + vehicles like BMPs with Saggers or Sheridans with Shillelagh etc. only get the one shot per game turn as per the rules, and then only in Initiative.

One of the issues with the points is that they really cannot take into account the historical development of ATGW - so early in the period they are rarer & expensive and can be relatively deadly but the number of rounds carried was often low (partly due to cost).
Later they are more common, still expensive but relatively cheaper, with more reloads available (often even spare launching stations) and also highly effective, but so are the counter measures they are up against.

It's a tricky balance to achieve.
The points change idea you have put forward is an alternative and looks OK.

My understanding was that recoilless rifles can fire more than once in a turn, as often as they are given orders, just like most other weapons?
The irony is that, if they get into range, RCLs can be more deadly than ATGMs. Though the getting into range thing is a big if.

Mark

The house-rules I would play are:

1) Dedicated ATGW units - fire once each PLAYER turn.
If fired in opponent's turn (Op-Fire), then a -1 to command roll in your turn.

2) Non-dedicated ATGW-armed units - fire once per GAME turn, in the opponent's turn (Op-Fire), also a -1 to command roll in your turn.

3) IATW-armed units - fire once per GAME turn, in either yours (Initiative or Command Phase) or your opponent's turn (Op-Fire).
Has a -1 to command roll in your turn if fired in your opponent's turn or in your Initiative Phase.

Andy

Yep, same as other guns. eg. T-12 - Aimed Fire is 6 rpm, SPG-9 is the same (source- FM 100-2-3)
That is probably why the Soviets kept them. How many Man-Pad ATGW launchers fire 6 rpm?

Paul

Hi Paul

We are agreeing. I just didn't articulate myself very well.

We are also trialing the following:

Infantry Anti-Tank Weapons.
IATWs may fire twice in a turn, once in reaction and once in the players own phase. Normal rules and penalties for reaction fire apply.

Anti-Tank Guided Weapons.
Infantry ATGWs fire as per IATWs.
Dedicated ATGW vehicles may also fire multiple times if they receive successful fire orders. Treat these vehicles as recce when taking fire to their front.

Support Units & Command Distance.
Treat AA units and ATGW units the same as mortars in that they ignore any penalty for command distance.

Cheers
Mark