The Commander Series Forum

Well, we are increasing our battle counter with CWC.
We tryed some suggested modifications and the game runs better ( we keep the hits, ban the thermobaric and the chemical and use fixed formations and recon)

After those games I realize that I faced a lot of struggles to call in airstrikes and artilleries. Aircrafts are usually repelled by opponent's AA. Arty, used under HQs ( as per rules of soviet in the attemp to use better command rating), are left unused because I prefer to command the units before calling in strikes.

For the aircrafts I need your advices.
Regarding the arty, I noted that I could take more than a single FAO. With command 6 it's too easy to fail the command throw :7...maybe with more FAO the chances will increase...
If I use more FAO, and I fail the first command throw, the related battery could be call in with another FAO?

Another question, as said we use fixed formation. But sometime we cannit undertand if:
1) is possible to add unit under the CO command? Also artys?
2) it's better to add the recce under the single HQs or under the CO? Or maybe under a dedicated HQ?

We don't like so much the choppas that work as aircrafts strikes... Anyone have tried some different rules?

1) Two points - the Soviet style army's can add up to 3 batteries of 122mm, and use your recce to boost the nearest FAO or FAC by 1.

2) Recce is never part of a fixed formation. REcce support should be, so in a Soviet division the two heavy companies of the recce btn would be part of a fixed formation, but the scout coys aren't.

3) Choppers, we let them stay on table, using their ATGW, they can only use their attack factor once.

IanS

Ok, so it's better to take more than a FAO and FAC?

The soviet style army can assign, under every HQ, 3 battery up to 122mm, I always interpret this thing as an opportunity to spot and call in arty using the HQ unit ( that have more command value of the FAO), isn't it?

Correct, assigned guns are called using B tn HQ CV

Yes.. What I want to ask it's how it's better ti organize the army to use the arty effectively.

Which rules you use for the choppas?

Keeping hits on a unit from game turn to game turn will certainly shorten your game time, dramatically.

I think the thing to do is start to try and think like a Soviet Cold War commander - playing Soviets is about "quantity having a quality all of its own" - I am not sure you need more FAOs or FACs is the answer. As Ian suggests the trick is to boost your FAC's and FAO's with your Recce or use your HQs or use pre-registered artillery scheduled.

The helicopter rules are one's that we've been using for a while now as part of our Cold War Commander annual campaigns - I'll see if I can find the link to the website where they are.

Keep at it

I will wait for the rules

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Soviets used a lot of preplanned fire missions and airstrikes.

Yep, but im mobiles battles and etc would be usefull to call sone fire support

The choppas rules are gone imo

Attack Helicopter - House Rules

All aircraft rated as attack helicopters may stay on-table after an area air strike. They remain at the spot placed to execute the attack and may receive no further orders that game turn.

Once on-table, an attack helicopter may be issued orders as part of any formation by an HQ or the CO.
When on-table, attack helicopters may attack one target with their main weapon per order. If they have secondary ATGW they may use this once per game turn.

They may use primary and secondary weapons to engage two targets of the same command.

Weapon attack values are used as printed, they are not doubled vs a single target.

When on-table, attack helicopters count as airborne AFV’s with 360º visibility. Attack helicopters may use opportunity fire as per any other unit.

All attack helicopters have a move of 50cm and there is no range penalty for issuing an order to them.
All attack helicopters count as S2 for move and fire or fire and move orders.

All AA capable units with LOS and LOF may shoot at the attack helicopter hitting on a 5 or a 6 once per successful order via Opportunity Fire.
Note Command Units that have an AA fire capability and may use this against any attack helicopter on-table once per successful order or via Opportunity Fire.

If it gets a stationary fire order, any Opp fire back at it is vs a target in the open (hit on 4,5 and 6) unless the helo was using a pop-up attack behind high area terrain. That encourages helo’s to keep on the move and take the S2 penalty.

When on-table and taking AA fire, whether suppressed or not, an attack helicopter may opt to leave the table via any table edge within 50cm. If it leaves the table it will suffer three more attacks if the enemy has partial air superiority and six more attacks if the enemy has full air superiority. An attack helicopter forced off-table in this way is not available in the next game turn for air strikes. On-table attack helicopters may use high area terrain (BUA or woods) to execute pop-up attacks and AA units will only hit on a 6.

On-table helicopters cannot be targetted for off-table Artillery strikes, unless they are stationary on the ground - usually when disembarking passengers, which takes a turn (in the same way as disembarking from an IFV or APC).

REFUELLING: Helicopters may stay on-table for a maximum of 4 game turns and must then be removed. On removal, they are not subject to the air superiority attacks. They must refuel for 1d4 turns before they are available again.

These rules have been tried and tested over a number of years now by the Cold War Commanders group - they generally work very well.

Good luck

Well, I like the rules. I can't understand why summon them with the standard rules and don't use a sort of mobile deployment instead.

We will try them asap and maybe test if using them with mobile deployment.

Guys, and what about giving a transport capacity, 1 space, to the legendary Hinds? Using them as airmobile IFV? Uhm...maybe treating all the choppas like airborne veichles that can also land to disembark people and etc?

Hi there PAnz3r

One of the fun aspects of introducing house rules is that it can throw up situations that have not previously been thought about. On-table attack helicopters as transports? Good point.

I would imagine that for Europe at least, the Hind would have been mission orientated, ie they would either be on an anti-tank sortie or transport mission, but not both. Then again, they should have a transport capacity of 1 unit and I believe that in Afghanistan they absolutely did transport troops and then join in with the fighting, so it is a legitimate tactic.

How about they are requested to arrive as a heli assault/landing as normal, then spend the rest of that turn grounded. They could not be targeted by AA fire, but would be vulnerable to other weapons. Next turn, they can be ordered to move & attack as per the house rules.

If you wanted to ferry troops with them they could be ordered to land by the infantry unit, then have to spend the rest of that turn grounded and vulnerable as above. Next turn, they could move up to 50cm then land as one order, then again have to spend the rest of the turn grounded. If you wanted to move more than 50cm,it would take several successful command rolls.

Mr Shedman of this forum made another good point about helicopters in our big game last October: if attack helicopters can stay on table, can they engage each other in air to air combat? I've been thinking about some simple rules for that, but not had the chance to play test them yet.

I think you can easily allow Hinds especially to carry a couple of bases of infantry.

I totally agree about on-table helicopters engaging each other - just think of them as air-mobile AFVs and apply pretty much the same thinking.

Likewise, with US armoured riverboats in a Vietnam game - just AFVs that can only move on water - but a lot faster.

In my 82nd Airborne - I have a Littlebird chopper that carries a base of Special Forces - Hinds could easily be carrying Spetnatz on special missions to take vital crossroads or capture a command centre.

Fun fun fun