The Commander Series Forum

A group of us have been playing CWC for several months now and we like the rules.
However, at the moment it is almost impossible for one tank to knock another tank out in a straight fight and yet it is accepted logic for modern war that "if its there I can see it, if I can see it I can hit it and if I can hit it I can destroy it."

So to overcome this issue I had thought about borrowing a rule from FoG. At the end of the turn instead of simply removing hit dice roll a 'destroyed' dice is rolled and if the score is greater or equal to the hits but not suppressed dice then remove dice, if it's lower then the unit is destroyed. Same thing for suppressed dice but if the dice is equal to the hits then the unit stays suppressed with that number of hits.

Obviously the values could be changed to give a greater or lesser chance of being destroyed or remaining suppressed.

Well last night we tried out this rule and it worked well. The dead units accrued a bit quicker but overall the game flow seemed unaffected. However, what it did do was stop players worrying about how many fires to concentrate on one particular target to get a kill. So overall it just felt that bit more 'real'.

Can I ask if anyone else has had a try with a similar rule?

That sounds reasonable, tbh - much more so than the "hits never get removed" option.

I might also be tempted by something Warmaster-ish from their massive units - if you have more than half hits taken at end of turn, then you halve you hits for rest of game (so an Abrams platoon with four or five hits at end of turn would go down to three hits to kill instead of six in following turns). But that requires book keeping or on table marking, so I think your idea is more elegant!

I'd be more inclined to use that option if I were playing squad level with 1:1 for vehicles. For platoon level, I quite like the rules as they stand - you have to decide whether to spread fire out and go for suppressions or concentrate fire for kills.

Based on the stats for actual conflicts, it should be very difficult to take out an Abrams or Challenger, after all on the battlefield their biggest threat to date has been another Abrams or Challi). If you're playing Iraqi, your best hope is an opposition command blunder.

If playing Iraqi, hope your opponent doesn't turn up

I agree this is most useful for 1:1 play but it adds something to the Platoon game as well. Anyway food for thought.

Hi Patwarg - we also had the same thoughts but came up with the method below.

Cold War Commander – Alternative Firing Procedure

Each unit can only be given one Fire order in its turn.

1)Roll Attacks with all To Hit values and modifiers as normal
2)For each Hits value of the target roll one save (not one save per successful attack)
3)If the number of successful attacks outnumbers the successful saves then the target is destroyed
4)If the number of successful attacks and saves are equal then the target is supressed

Cover Save & No Save Value
Hard Cover gives a 5+ save and Soft Cover a 6+. This save can be used instead of any units normal save value if desired. Otherwise units without a Save Value must rely on all Attacks missing to survive!

Concentrating Fire
Normal firing procedure is for each unit to engage its own target; however units can concentrate fire as follows. Pick one unit as the main attacker and then declare who will support that attack. Each support adds 50% rounded down of its attacks to the main attack. Save as normal. All attacks against the same target (per Fire order) must be declared before any dice are rolled. Remember each unit may only get one fire order, but a commander could reserve the firing of some of his units and try to issue a separate fire order to them on the same target, starting the process again from step 1).

Fallback
A unit suppressed twice will fall back and potentially be destroyed as normal. The number of dice to fall back will equal the number of successful attacks in step 4).

Try the optional rule of leaving hits on at the end of the turn. Very quickly those hits stack up and goodbye unit. I have used this for all units and it works for me.

All these different ideas have their merits. Its interesting that all these ideas seem to be trying to meet a perception that the rules do not quite reflect players expectations in this one regard.

Pat

I/we are happy with the way hits work, tbh. No one I know "in the flesh" (so to speak) is particularly unhappy with it, except perhaps at Skirmish scale where it does feel a bit more odd!

But then wargamers can't resist tinkering

We used some house rules in a recent game that made it possible to knock out modern tanks while still keeping the basic mechanics of the game. The battle report is at
http://18clovehamhock.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-...
The house rules and why we adopted them are at
http://18clovehamhock.blogspot.com/2013/03/hous...

I like "N Harwood" Co of the burning AFV brigade

So, those house-rules merely consist of players temporarily assuming a nom-de-guerre of 'Nik', 'Mr Harwood' or something similar?

It seems to lead to a satisfactory amount of burning armour!

one modification that I use on the roll for hits at the end of turn rule, is that you only roll to destroy if the unit is suppressed otherwise the hits come off as normal. This, combined with the optional morale rules makes well motivated units much more survivable and gives that little bit extra distinction between the elite and the rabble that can sometimes be lacking.

It also makes being motivated worth the extra 25% you have to spend on it

The OP's suggestion is simple and elegant.

And 3-tank platoons don't change the lethality of modern weapons systems. One side or the other is going to be completely knocked out in a one-on-one combat.