The Commander Series Forum

Hi guys,
As a huge fan of the Tornado I was a little disappointed to see that the army lists don't have any Tornado's in them. I think the Tornado entered service with the RAF in 1982, so should fit in to 1980's British ORBATS.

Does anyone have a house rule for them (including suggested points value)?

I have also noticed the Apache is missing from the UK ultra modern ORBAT but I suppose you could just use the AH64D from the American ORBATS.

-Sharpe

Sharpe
The Tornado in British use was more an interdiction and airfield denial weapon (as demonstrated in the Gulf war) it wasn't meant to be used as a ground attack aircraft in support of the infantry on the ground but much further back.
Taking out bridges, rail crossings and Airfields.
Regards
Sean

I've done it - have to look for the stats though. I'll report back.

IanS

Hi guys,

@ sean67: I appreciate that their main mission would have been behind the action we see in CWC (either in their interdiction role, or in their strike role). But we have contrived situations where (for example) artillery can be an on board unit. Also, there may be games where, perhaps, recce units might be in a position to call in fast air such as Tornado.

I work with a former Tornado WSO so I will ask him how likely it would have been that Tornados would have been used closer to the front line, after all, if the balloon had gone up I think all bets would have been off so to speak. - Ill post here what he says, but really, I am just a huge fan on the aircraft and would rather use it than Jag.

@ Ianrs54: Thanks, would be great to hear what you use. I was thinking about simply giving it exactly the same stats/points as a Jaguar but perhaps that is doing the Tonka a disservice (sorry if there are any Jaguar drivers reading this).

-Sharpe

Hi Sharpe
I understand your wanting to use the aircraft in your scenarios, I was just trying to explain their exclusion from the lists.
Regards
Sean

Nice just to use the model I suppose? Good if it were confirmed as legitimate?

Hi guys,
So I have spoken to the chap that I know that used to back seat Tornados and the answer is almost exactly as Sean67 has said.

Pretty much an emphatic no, not a chance of using them on the front line, or even near it. They would have been used almost exclusively in the airfield denial role using JP233 (that is until they learnt the problems faced in GW1).

The Tornado would only have been cleared for CRV7 (rockets) and thus wouldn't have been much use on the front line at all.

So I am sad to say I will just have to model some Jags and live with my disappointment.

-Sharpe

Or play some deep strike scenarios with the Tornadoes hitting the rear zone airfield or maybe a rail yard/junction, with your Para's (& some SAS support) going in afterwards to hold until relieved? A modern version of Arnhem ...

Now there's a Forlorn Hope if ever I heard one

TBH I'd just use the model if you've got one - once the balloon goes up and Tornado losses become too high to keep throwing them away on airfields they might well end up repurposed. And in the ground attack role as an emergency conversion just use the Jag stats (or if you reckon they're much better steal some stats from elsewhere that fit better!).

I don't think you'd want to crater a runway then drop Paras/SAS on it, as they would like an intact runway to fly in reserves, armour support, supplies, etc. Tornados might be used to try and isolate a landing zone by blowing bridges, cratering highways/junctions, etc.

I like the idea of using Tornados to hunt SSMs and artillery in the rear areas, but then I rarely play Soviets, so I would - anything that neutralises Soviet artillery is a good thing.

Sounds like an interesting scenario to build

Do you deploy the Para's & SAS on the ground and then work out the effectiveness of the Tornado strikes retrospectively ... as it's possible the infantry would not have time to abort their drop if the Tornadoes did not do the business ... so might get counter attacked by more forces than anticipated (on a random dice throw).

With scenario objectives based upon how many turns they survived.

You could look up the raid that was planned on an Argentine airfield as a basis for the scenario. During the Falklands the SAS were nearly tasked with having to fly to an airfield, land, destroy as many aircraft as possible and then extract by marching into (I assume) Chille.

Quick research has found what I am looking for. Look up operation Mikado. Andy Mcnab talks about it in a couple of his books. Also Nish's 'Freefall' probably talks about it as Mcnab says Nish had just joined the regiment and as he was a top free faller he was slated for the Op.

Also, a recent article in the Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592320/The-secret-disastrous-SAS-attempt-invade-Argentina-revealed-In-Falklands-War-crack-troops-suicidal-mission-storm-Galtieris-Exocet-missile-base-This-story-told-time.html

and is backed by a much older story in the Telegraph):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/1387091/SAS-suicide-mission-to-wipe-out-Exocets.html

which is also indirectly (or rather accidently) backed up in Kate Ade 's 'kindness of strangers' indicates the SAS were sent into Argentina for such a raid.

This could form the basis of a scenario and (as with all things SF) makes for great reading if nothing else.

-Sharpe

Sounds very interesting - yes please

In case you missed it BI I added that scenario info to my last post above.

-Sharpe