The Commander Series Forum

Hi all, I have been playing Modern Spearhead for a while, but have seen the Commander series and thought to give it a try.

I bought CWC and a licnce to access the BG.

I tend to play 86-89 Cold War British, but notice that the BG application only allows 2000pt armies, so half a dozen tanks plus some support max's it out.

Am I doing this wrong? does the system still work if I went for 5,000 or even 10,000 points?

Appreciate any pointers as the system seems quite good otherwise.

Steve

Sounds like Pete hasn't enabled your full access - pop him a message!

Or possibly Leon at Pendraken - I don't know if they've got responsibility for the forums yet?!

OK, so no points issue BUT... the rule book lists say (British cold war) max 11 AFV, or Soviet for the same a max of 9 AFV.(per BG)

Which actually makes the photo on the front cover with 10 Soviets not possible.

Am I reading this wrong?

Steve

Not sure, but as you may not play to exact multiples of 1000 pts it does come into play - eg 1800pts you can still only get nine of X, but at 2001-2999 you could have more and possibly squeeze them in...

The army list is per BG, so only that many Tanks in your force, not per 1,000.

again, is this correct?

Steve

I may be wrong, as I don't subscribe to the full version of battlegroups online, but I seem to remember there was an option to turn off the limits rules for battlegroup creation in the full version - it was a selling point of the full subs. I build my own using an Excel spreadsheet and use whatever sources I can find on the internet, supplemented by files in the downloads section here, the Fire and Fury web site and a very old copy of OMG from Table Top Games. Mark Bevis also does specific army lists available from the Wargames Vault web site.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Andy

Not quite correct for most, Hengist. There's a number of limit "types" - some tanks/stands are limited in total (e.g. "Max nine per BG", others are per "block" of points (e.g. "max nine per 1000pts".

At the low level of points the "locked" BG generator gives you the difference probably isn't noticeable, especially in most CWC where your tanks are pretty expensive (compared to say L3/33 tankettes or similar in BKC)

As Andy says, I like to use the BG Generator/Army Lists in conjunction with "real" TOE info to try and make something approximates to actual formations (accounting for a bit of attrition or attachments from higher levels etc etc).

Thanks Guys, I wasn't using BG Online/Generator. I was going by the book.

Where the limit is a 'hard' limit of a number of tanks per BG regardless of size.
Agreed the vehicles are very expensive (Challenger II being 230 pts from memory),
But the limitations seemed unusual considering that a BG seems to have no upper limit in points. I would try to use Historical/theoretical OB anyway (Totally copied from the Spearhead lists )
The difference between 'per 1,000 pts' and 'hard limits' is quite clear.
Does the limitation affect games much, I imagine having horde of Soviets crossing the North German plain (9 tanks max) isn't that scary!

Sorry to be a pain, but the limit (and yes, I know I can ignore it, but others I would introduce to this would take the view that taking away limits mean I would very quickly be facing all the T-80's in the world, with no support) must be there for a reason and I can't get my head around it

Steve

I'm not sure where you're at - there's no max limit on the number of T-55's that can come crashing though, aside from 9 per 1000 points?

So a BG at 2001pts might have 18...

But if your playing "real world", you could have 27 T-55s taking on two companies of Chally's (8 models) with no bother, you could always beef up the T-55s to -62s, -72s or -80s if you want to give the Soviet player a chance. I think the limits in the rules were to create battalion sized battlegroups that emphasised the NATO combined arms doctrine - so you can build the sort of task orientated forces so beloved of the West. Mix up a couple of companies of Chieftains or Challys with some Warriors or FV432 and infantry dismounts with CGs and Milan and you have a pretty tough opponent for your Soviet tank regiment of three 9 tank battlegroups (battalions) plus supports.

Cheers, Andy

Don't forget the requirement for infantry, especially if you want to take objectives.

Actually, you could do "real world" like that as is - 27 T-55's is about 2900 pts, so go to 4000pts to add in command and the supporting infantry and a few bits and bobs, then set the Brits at 8 Chieftains for about 1600pts and either bare minimum command and infantry for 2000pts total, and play attack-defence as written.

Or beef them up to about 2/3rds with more infantry, ATGW, choppers, air support and off table arty etc etc.

The points system/limits actually work quite well for getting "historical" (or at least plausible) forces on table!

Or just stuff and play with what you fancy

Apologies everyone and thank you for your responses.

The book does say
Soviet Cold War
' Max nine tank units per 1,000 points'

whereas
British Cold War
'Max 12 tank units per Battlegroup'

presumably, based on 'Sediments' comment, Challengers can take on any number of Soviet tanks without much bother. Is it the same with Chieftains?

I am transitioning from Modern Spearhead and have waaaay more Chally's and chieftains than that...lol

Only thing for it.....

Going to have to play a game....

Thanks all..

Steve

Tragic that

Any late NATO armour is flippin' lethal and very hard to kill. Chally, Abrams (esp. the very late HA with 2+ save), Leo 2 - all very hard to knock out. 3+ save means you need three dice to get one damage, means 18 successful hits (on average, your dice may vary etc etc), means 36 dice in the open needed for a knock out! Get in some cover and it's horrible.

The big guns on the NATO beasts are equally as nasty in return - they'll pop open Soviet tanks like ripe melons. And with their generally excellent CVs and some recce to boost them you can usually grab three activations per turn, dish out lots of casualties and render the advancing tank regiment into a lot of deisel fuelled BBQs in short order.

So I've taken to countering them with thermobarics, napalm and helicopter assaults from behind