The Commander Series Forum

Hi everyone,
So I have a bit of a conundrum:

I am modeling a 1/300 British 1985 'Heavy' armoured brigade (ie 2 armoured regiments and 1 mech).

The TO&E's I have suggest the Brigade CO would be in a (Command) Chieftain, as would the regiment CO'S (except the mech inf, which we will come back to later).

So, and please jump in here if I am about to do something stupid, I was going to have my CO and regiment HQ'S represented on board as cheiftains (perhaps with a signals vehicle for the Brigade CO base).

Also, as many people tell me they tend to have 2 HQ units per regiment, I would also have the 2IC represented as a cheiftain base (I have come up with a simple way to track the HQ cheiftains from the 'attacking' cheiftains).

So I would use the base with HQ/CO stats but represented with a cheiftain. Is this totally stupid? I just think having a sultan/spartan/landy with infantry would look out of place in an armoured brigade?

Also I have read that HQ units have anti aircraft capabilities. Now I wasn't aware of this and planned to cross attach 2 bases of Javalin MANPADS per regiment to provide local SAM capability for my regiments. Given the fact that the HQ units can shoot aircraft, is the implication that these MANPADS have already been 'factored in' and perhaps I should ignore the addition of the extra MANPADS?

Finally, for my mech inf, I was going to get a Sultan model with some dismounts as the mech inf HQ (and 2IC) and put them all on one base. I would (in the ORBAT) purchase a Spartan (as a stand in for the Sultan) and use that to transport them. Is it normal to purchase a vehicle for HQ units in mech infantry regiments or is their transport/mobility already factored into the HQ unit points price? Assuming you do need the extra vehicle, do you need to separate the vehicle from the command infantry or is it acceptable to place them on one bad together?

Many thanks once again for helping a noob.

-Sharpe

These suggestions seem on the right lines for me. HQs and COs can be made to your individual requirements.

Hi sharpe.
The Regiment,Brigade and even Div/corps HQs are and were made up of lots of different vehicles
Depending on Role the HQ's would of had chieftains but would also have a mix of Sultans/, Spartans and even Landrover and trucks.
The Sultan is the command variant of the 432 family so would be used by HQs for helping run the battle.
My spin was to get two different sized bases to differentiate between Bn and Bge HQs then use same size bases but with different vehicle configuration to represent main and Tac/2i/c.
Chieftain Sultan main, chieftain 432 for 2ic. The man pads are already factored in most Infantry Bns have some form of anti air even if it's just hand held.
HQs transport are already factored into HQ costs (if you go down costing way) most go with orbats.
So for your infantry Bn .
Hq Sultan and 432 or Warrior
2i/c Spartan 432 or warrior
Normal infantry 432 or warrior with separate infantry bases.
You would also have Mortars 432 have their own mortar carriers with warrior Bn these were kept.
Heavy weapons Ptn carried in 432s .
Recce Ptn in Spartan or designated 432.
Look up some of the esteemed gentlemen on here's blogs they will be able to show you what I mean.
Count belisarious or any of the coldwar commanders from the battle of Hannover thread
Regards
Sean

Guys,
As usual many thanks for the insights and advice. Also, you have spared me the pain/cost of buying and painting 6-12 javelin teams

-Sharpe

You can also use it as an opportunity to get out exciting models that don't usually see the light of day - tank recovery vehicles, ammo transporters, trucks, despatch riders or scout cars or other "run arounds"...

The AA factor is partly the organic MANPADS and light AA like MGs or other armies light auto cannon etc so you could model that as well if you wanted, as well as representing heavier stuff that could be covering that area of responsibility but isn't an individual stand - so could have a Rapier unit with your Sultan and officers pointing

Already got me a tracked rapier

- don't leave home without it

It's just a question of do I/don't I for MANPADs. The more I look at the stats the more I think perhaps 1 per battalion structure would be appropriate alongside the tracked rapier covering the Brigade HQ AO.

-Sharpe

When the Hinds come buzzing over, you'll want a Manpad per company as well as all the HQs and dedicated Rapier. Hinds are nasty and difficult to drive off, one is bad, two can ruin your whole day.

Cheers, Andy

On the "one per 1000pts" allowance you usually work out about one AA system per battalion anyway It's where to put them that's the key...

I like MANPADS as they're very "hidey" and you can find some cover easily until you need to shoot. AA vehicles tend to attract fire much more easily if you get them somewhere they're actually useful!

Stinger teams that can dismount from 1/2 ton Landrovers with trailers are very handy in that way

Exactly my preferred modus operandi

Well, SA-7, Blowpipe, Stinger in GAZ, Landie, Iltis or jeep/HUMVEE as needed

Mind, I do like a Shilka/Gepard close up with the tanks. Makes a very handy anti-infantry system and keeps the attack choppers at a distance too! It's something I really miss with the Brits or Americans - I reckon it was a serious lapse in doctrine and procurement not to get a few similar systems!

Wonder how easily we could have run some Gepards or even switched the turret onto a Chieftain hull or similar? Heck, a CVR(T) chassis with a proper 40mm autocannon on AA mount might have done it...

Tracked Rapier partially fills the role, but there aren't a lot of them available and we were astonished to find it wasn't effectively armoured, so no save in CWC.

The CVR(T) Spartan will allow Blowpipe or Stinger to fire while mounted, so does offer some protection.

Don't the Vulcan and Chapparall offer the same function for US forces - I guess the Sgt York would have done the job, but couldn't be made to work within the budgets?

Cheers, Andy

Whilst the light SAMs are handy, I miss the guns... M163 just doesn't cut it in the same way, although tbh as the guns are mostly useful for ground based fire support then it's probably as good as anything

And there's just nothing in the UK arsenal that compares even to the M163 let alone Shilka or Gepard level stuff.

Basically, a Sgt. York that worked and didn't cost more than an MBT would have been good Or just buy Gepards...

I stuck my HQ stands, FAOs, FACs etc on round bases whilst all my 'fighting bases'are square or rectangular. Observers are on 20mm round, Coy HQs are on 25mm round, BHQ and 2inC are on 30mm round. Army HQ is on a 40mm round.

Good choices!

I may do all my Brit HQs on rounds. Can't face rebasing everything else...

East Riding Miniature do a nice range of lazer-cut 1mm or 2mm MDF bases. I know they do Hexagons but might even do half-rounds. That would look nice.

i find it easier to use poker chips for command. easier to distinguish from other units.

Command groups for Brigade and Battalion sounds right to me. Also, round bases is a good idea as that way you will see what they are at a glance. I did this for my Panzer Regt. (which is basically a brigade of two battalions).



I have three command levels in my games - Battalion, Brigade and Division - and as there is only one division level stand per side I really went to town with them. This is the one for the Brits.



I also use command bases to get a few 'scenic' elements you don't usually see on a table without the extra expense (in time and money) of just making vignettes for the sake of aesthetics. Ambulances are one such - I use them as infantry battalion command elements.

German CO (1:72)

Italian CO (1:72)

German CO (1:285)



Soviet CO (1:285)